Muhammad Ali Legendary Interview With Johnny Carson. (1977) HT

first guest tonight. Incidentally, there’s a new motion picture out and the advertising says, I got to read this to get it right. It says, quote, “Winner, loser, lover, loudmouth, the man.” Unquote. The film is the greatest and the man, of course, is the heavyweight champion of the world, Muhammad Ali. [Music] You’re getting old. >> That makes two of us.

>> See, they even love you after that fight. >> Main thing is win. >> Yeah. Now you you you won the fight now. We’ve known each other how long? >> Sometimes you do it by one point. Sometimes you do it by 10 round knockout. And >> but main thing is to win. >> You got to win the fight. Now we’ve known each other.

You’ve been on the show the first time I think it was eight or nine years ago. Something like that. >> Something like that. >> Yeah. >> Your hair was black then. >> My hair was >> I died. >> Now let’s come on now. Let’s be honest. That was not your best fight the other night. You’ve boxed a lot better than that, haven’t you? >> Right.

Well, we all look a lot different as time go by. >> I heard what you said to Coell that night. >> You used to look so nice on television and his pieces were real thin and the wrinkles weren’t there and your hair was black and Johnny Carson. Now you look like >> I knew I know your style. I knew you were going to turn this whole thing around on me. >> We all changed.

You did lay a pretty good one on Cosell the other night before the fight. He was kidding you and you said Coell says, “Don’t you have a little unnatural wrinkle around your stomach?” You looked at the top of his head and says, “Well, a lot of us carry around things that are unnatural.” [Music] >> Didn’t bring it up again. >> A lot of people I saw the fight now and um you a lot of people think one of the best fighters has ever lived in the world.

Now, you were covering up a lot during the whole fight. >> One thing, >> what’s the strategy there? >> I tell you one thing here >> that people don’t understand. >> This boy was 22 years old, >> right? >> I’m 13 years older now. When I fought Sunny Liston when I was 22, I’m sure I would have gotten to him with about 25 punches as one. >> Yeah.

>> But that was 14 years ago. It’s a miracle just to still be on the top right now. 14 years ago. I know. >> Did you know that? Did you know that Evangelisa had another fighter in his trunks at the same time? >> See, the reason the reason the reason the people were so disappointed, this guy’s unknown, >> right? >> He’s a good little fighter, but he’s unknown.

Take >> You think he was good? >> I knew he was good. I was in there 15 rounds with him. >> I know. song. >> Let me tell you something that I fought a guy named uh Jimmy Young in that same ring and land over a year ago. >> I was criticized. Who’s Jimmy Young now? They think Jimmy Young can beat me. I fought another guy 5 years ago named Ken Norton. He was a nobody. Coale them.

Didn’t even want to show it on TV. >> Now all of a sudden they think he can beat me. So unknown. See, and what they played Dwayne Bavik when he fought Norton. Oh, I was even thinking he might win. And they had me so brainwashed >> and it was just nothing. He just It was no match at all.

He was like a little old boy trying to fight his daddy >> and that was supposed to be a great fight. >> But at least he knocked Bobby out in 58 seconds. >> That’s what I’m trying to say. But Bobby was supposed to be the favorite. No, >> not with a lot of people. I mean, without the experts, but what I’m saying is that you never can tell what’s going to happen in a heavyweight fight.

>> And then do you think I would go in the ring and labor for 15 rounds for the fun of it? Well, no, but you you got $2.75 million, didn’t you? >> Yeah. >> I would go in with you for $2.75 million. >> Who would be your beneficiary? >> Who would collect? >> You got a point. I joined that lady in her Ferrari. But now look, let me ask you a question now.

You did a lot of this. >> Let me tell you why I did. >> In the corner and just stood there like this. >> Let me tell you why I did it. >> That’s why I’m asking. >> Tell the pilot how to fly the plane. >> Why did you do that? >> I see a plane and thunderstorm there and the man’s flying a certain way. You I’m like, “Don’t be flying over there.

Fly over here.” >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> The man had a lot of energy. The man was young. >> Yeah. >> The man like you don’t believe. >> I’m just looking at you. >> Yeah. He’s young. 13 years younger. >> No, no. Let me tell you. The man had a lot of energy. And for me, too. See, let me teach you. See, see, you all don’t know about boxing.

>> Well, come on. I used to box in the service. >> What you box? Orange. Cigars. [Applause] You are the last man that I expect to give me hell. I always You Every time I come on your show, I never wear my Johnny cars. I don’t even get prepared for tricks and questions. >> I wouldn’t trick you with any question. >> I saw you attacking me.

Why would you do that? >> Now, show me. >> Show me what you’re Cuz I I >> Why did you change this? >> Cuz I wanted to see you better the other night. I wanted cuz I know what you can do. >> Well, you know what I could do. >> Yeah. Now, tell me what what show me what what the problem was. Why you did that? >> Not do what I want to do.

>> Yeah. [Music] >> Okay. He’s young. So, you wanted him to expend his energy, right? >> That’s right. And he did. And when round the last two rounds, the last three rounds were critical. I had to keep moving and close the show. I mean like to for the last three rounds and mainly the last round to go by and you lose it in the minds of the judges, he’s losing the people, right? >> You have to win the fight on the end. >> All right.

So, letting him burn all this energy. See, the worst thing for heavyweight to do or any fighter is to is to blast away at a man and ain’t nothing coming through that’s really hurting him and you turn yourself out and then he comes back and get you later. So going into that roper though, here’s a young boy going for the world title. Think he’s got the champion hurt. Oh, I got him.

He goes crazy and he punches ahead and he all I got. I got it. I got it. I got it. [Music] after after after four or five rounds, he’s tired. And in the end, >> I was 35 years old and I was doing the dancing and he was still 22. >> I was doing the move. He’s a tired 22. >> Now, what would you do? How would you suppose you were fighting uh Nordon or Jimmy Young and they did this? What would you do? >> I don’t tell you what I’ll do.

>> How would you How would you get through there? >> I can’t tell you. There’s a way to get through. >> But if I tell you, they hear and then next time I do it, they’ll do it. Dela. What a con man you are. We’ll be back. Let me sell some ketchup and uh we’ll be right back. Now, a message from Hines Ketchup.

You want to see some real ketchup? >> No. We’re back. Did you just join us? [Applause] We’re talking with an aging fighter. Ladies and gentlemen, you and Coell good friends. >> Johnny, he gets paid for being an idiot. What’s your excuse? >> You’re going to turn on me, huh? >> Something I never, you know, let’s talk about something else. >> Okay, let’s talk about your picture.

It opened last night called The Greatest. And from what I read in the papers, even in the trade papers today, the picture got very good reviews. And you particularly got good reviews as an actor. >> Did that surprise you? Yes, it did because I’ve never act on the front of a motion picture.

I mean, with a prepared script, I mean, making a movie, >> right? >> I’ve always been acting all the time. >> Yeah. >> But, uh, never that type acting. I’m surprised. So far, it’s looking good and the people like it. >> Yeah. This is >> I think it could be better. It feels funny watching yourself. I think it could be better, but >> you think it’d be better.

If you had to do it again, would you do it a little differently or >> I think so. Yeah. >> Yeah. Did you have an acting coach at all or somebody? >> No. No. We uh was talking about going to some school or something for a few weeks and the time cry they didn’t want me to think about just be natural. >> So, >> and that’s what all the reviewers said was good about it that you were natural in the picture because basically it’s the story of your life.

>> I didn’t know my script. We would uh for an example >> if we were going to do something today and we had do these two pages take it about an hour before we do it >> and then I go with who artist B John Molly who are we working with and then we rehearse it and then we go do it >> and then tomorrow I wouldn’t know what I was going what I was going to do until I got there.

So I didn’t I just just came out >> that’s not a bad way. >> I don’t think I could play another character then. So being myself wasn’t hard for me. They say being yourself is hard but it’s easier for me. >> Yeah. Would you like to No. How about playing a motion picture where you had to play another character >> that then? I don’t know. >> Yeah.

>> I don’t know. I don’t know if I want to be an actor. Really? >> I like real life drama. >> You’re going to Are you going to Your personal physician said the other day that he thought you ought to quit fighting cuz he didn’t think you your your your heart was in it anymore. >> Well, >> is that an accurate quote? >> Well, not like it used to be, but I’m I know myself better than he do. I’m good for about two more. Two more.

>> Two more fights. >> Maybe one more. Maybe no more. I’m still deciding if the pitcher do like I want to do. No more. >> If somebody says, “Hey, we got to fight for a couple million dollars.” Would that >> No, not just two million ain’t enough. >> Not just two. Yeah. >> Got to come at least three. >> About three. Huh? >> Skip. Got to start talking three.

>> Can I ask you a personal question? Don’t take offense cuz it’s been in the papers. Well, >> forget it. It’s not about was as important as I thought it was. No, I a lot of people said you’re fighting because you had some marital problems and there were a lot of expenses and so forth.

>> Well, letting I don’t put it on just that. I rather not go into that. >> Okay. I would understand that though. Okay. >> Let’s get back to your picture. We got a we got a couple of film. Is it one film clip? >> One piece of film and um I guess it doesn’t need any introduction, does it? Oh, this is when somebody said that you’re or before the list and fight that you were >> in his saloon in Las Vegas.

He was gambling and I caused a stir that actually happened. >> You’re trying to bait him a little bit and get a little uh >> talking of the fight. >> Publicity going for the fight. >> Okay, watch the monitors. Here’s a film clip from the greatest >> son. Son, I’ve been looking for you all over.

I bet you all the money you got right here, right now. Right now. Knock you out, sucker. You are nothing. You are nothing. You hear me? You go with sucker. I’m coming to you. You can’t duck me forever. You can’t duck me forever. You know who I am. Fraud Patterson. You knocked him out once. You knock him out again. I got something for you. That’s right. Everybody’s watching. >> I don’t never see you no ladies.

You ladies, I see you got two printers here. That’s how you going to get warm, sucker. You keep embarrassing color folks. >> Embarrassing color folks. As ugly as you are, you the heavyweight champion representing us looking like you look. Style up your >> Tus is in town. I’m serious. This is no crank call. It’s no joke.

Clous Clay is in town. As a matter of fact, I’m looking out the window now. He’s outside Sunny Liston’s house with a bunch of men on the bus. Yes, they were all colored. Well, if you I don’t like to say that, but they are on. Yes. It’s going to be trouble. I don’t really know. He’s not here to play checkers. So, I’m calling you now.

Call the police. Uh, get the newspapers because you have a scoop. [Applause] Not that you you really did those things. >> Yes, we we at the time um Floyd Patterson, Nino Valdez, Z Foley were top contenders. I realized that promoters wanted to match wanted wanted to make the title fight with whoever could draw the most people.

So right away I saw Gorgeous George, these wrestlers, how great I am, how pretty and people came to see him get beat. I said this is a good idea. So I started talking about and I called up the press. I drove my bus from Chicago to Denver, Colorado where he lived at the time.

And I called up and pretend I was a lady and this bus is out here and you better call the police. It’s going to be a ride. And all the police came and then the press came and then I went out with a bus and drove it in his yard and had a bit of loudspeaker call. He threw rocks at the bus and anyway it got a lot of publicity after six months of campaigning.

Then the promoters had to come to negotiate. >> Now was that business in the casino there? >> That was We thought he had a pistol. He had he was told I was coming. The promoter set it up, but I didn’t know it. And he had a real pistol with blinks in it. And after I ran the mouth about five, six minutes, he turned around.

>> Scattered to clear the place out pretty good, didn’t it? >> Yeah, man. >> That that really happened. >> That’s funny. Hey, I wish you great success with a picture. Now, what are your plans now? Uh, have you got another fight scheduled? Where do you go from here? place called Sagal in Africa. Three more days >> and then we have a another fight maybe with a fellow name Ernie Schaefer is the number fourth ranked heavyweight in the world. >> Right.

>> Uh I’m looking a couple more moves. Something else I want to say too in my movie there you see. Can you put your camera a closeup on this right here? Can you get on your camera? This is one over here. >> This is a beautiful specialmade car. gold inside and outside 14 karat. And my friend at King Speed Shop in uh Lansen, Illinois designed this car for me and I named Bud Heinman.

And I want the people to know this car is going to be on display in different cars. >> Is that your own personal car? >> Yes, I designed it and it’s going to soon. It’s going to go on sale for the price I can’t say yet. >> Yeah. You don’t leave that park out on the street at night, do you? >> No, I don’t. I keep it there and then last send it to the speed shop.

And uh these uh uh they do everything the car is there. If you want your car fixed up, think about it. I saw your car outside. >> I should take him over there, huh? >> He’s waxing. >> Needs waxing. >> Okay, Chad. Thanks for coming. I always enjoy my [Music] [Applause]